All this talk and critical charges that Nagin and Blanco were less together before, during and after Katrina...and yet more facts are surfacing about how Brown and FEMA supported both Blanco and Nagin. This is shameful. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9912186/

"All this talk and critical charges that Nagin and Blanco were less together before, during and after Katrina...and yet more facts are surfacing about how Brown and FEMA supported both Blanco and Nagin. " ----------------------- Ann, I don't see anything on that website that reflects anything about Nagin and Blanco's actions. I don't understand how what Brown was doing or not doing exhonerates them for what they were doing. Could you please explain your logic on this? That is, if you have any.

If Brown was such a screw-up, then how come it took 164 declared disasters for his ineptitude to show up? Under Secretary Brown has led Homeland Security?s response to more than 164 presidentially declared disasters and emergencies, including the 2003 Columbia Shuttle disaster and the California wildfires in 2003. In 2004, Mr. Brown led FEMA?s thousands of dedicated disaster workers during the most active hurricane season in over 100 years, as FEMA delivered aid more quickly and more efficiently than ever before. Source: http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm Then you have things like this: While he was in college, from 1975 to 1978, he handled "labor and budget matters" as an administrative assistant to the city manager of Edmond, Oklahoma. His White House biography states that he had emergency services oversight in this position. However, the head of public relations for the city denied that Brown had oversight over anybody, and explained that "the assistant is more like an intern." Brown disputes this characterization of his position, and the city official cited by Time Magazine in this quote claimed on a local news broadcast (Oklahoma City's News 9) that the remark was taken out of context. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Brown Gee, imagine that.. people who are not exactly star quality finding their way into government service. Let's execute them all... Oh wait, if we do that there would be no politicians left. lol I haven't read where anyone on this board said Michael Brown was the God of Emergency Handlings... however FEMA and the Feds had no time to screw up when Nagin and Blanco began the finger pointing.. those two pretty much balled up the works pretty efficiently. lol

I think Ann confuses media dribblings with good information. We all have agendas on the board and we all have our perspective. The media plays into our weaker mindset to build "virtual realities" that do not in fact constitute news. Ann, if in fact you can prove strategically that there was criminal intent on FEMA's part and not confuse leadership with organizations I could read your posts and understand what you are trying to say. Where is the line of criminal actions on the part of the government. Where are the responsibilities as defined in documents and keep those in mind, then you can validate your positions better. In the documentation drawnup by NO, state level, there were huge assumptions. Assumptions cause blame. FEMA has assumptions and those cause blame. Root cause is not it is one or the other, it will be a refinement process and not a witch hunt.

to finish...unless you enjoy witch hunting, in that case, you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

I am not sure whether Ann is a wannabe spin doctor or if she is just into the liberal mindset... but I take no offense at her for she is generally cool enough about things to suit my tastes. I'm used to having people around that don't see things the way I see them. lol I suppose we do all have agendas on this board, besides the agenda of wanting to speak out and be heard and I definately have my perspective - if you haven't noticed by now. lol People, in General, need to realize that alot of the information we get is taken out of context and that can alter the whole view of what happened.

I'm absolutely fine with everyone's "spin" as long as we all realize it is in reality "disposable" and incomplete. Pretty much garbage over the long haul. inclding mine.

LOL I view it the other way, Moogie, what we say in these forums have no merit but anyone can add a vital piece to the solution. It takes all kinds to make the world. :) Darn I am getting more positive as I get older.. I wonder how that happened? LOL

Think Tanks never worked :)

LOL Hesitantly I say I agree with you.

I'm not sure it's all garbage, Moogie. I have learned a lot from many here on this board (YOU included :)) Sharing our perspectives both widens our knowledge base and our viewpoints. This is a good thing. :) BTW, I read Brown's emails, and the one thing that stood out beyond everything else was his directive to evacuate the pets with the people. He understood that people would be reluctant to leave their pets, and that there was a collective responsibility for pet safety as well as people safety. I really appreciated reading that. Other than the directive about the pets, there was nothing in those emails that either proved his performance was stellar or a complete failure. I would expect public officials to have some concern regarding their wardrobe and appearance; I don't fault Mr. Brown for that.

most of this is disposable, in that, when we learn something new, we dispose or grow or move on. I did not mean that people don't matter, not at all, but that our ideas come 'n go. Or I am more jaded than most. (I program in a bank in a ruthless environment...oh to win powerball and just rescue>) There are basics in life that have nothing to do with circumstances or events or media dribble or hurricanes. Those things I hold near 'n dear. The personalities of all the posters some of which remind me of the island of misfit toys and some should be teachers and mentors. I belong on the island along with some other yahoos. I think you and others are good mentors.

Moogie, you don't belong on Yahoo Island at all! No way, no how! You have steadfastly provided good information about disaster preparedness, personal responsibility, and have continuously championed animal welfare. I've learned things from what you wrote - things that matter. We don't always agree - I'm more liberal than you are politically, but that's ok. I always respect what you have to say and enjoy reading what you write. And you often bring up points that I've overlooked. It's good to have ideas and viewpoints that continue to change. That means we're growing and learning - it makes us dynamic instead of static. It's one of the benefits of being able to communicate with many people, from different places and different walks of life, with different viewpoints. Thank you for your kind words about me. I think you're a teacher and a mentor, too.

I agree, Abby, but I go a step further... Anything involving Brown in the Katrina situation was neither stellar nor a complete failure. I keep going back to the fact no one gave Brown or FEMA time to fail or excel before the fingerpointing started. Almost every critic of the Fed response out there expected the Feds to be there as soon as the Hurricane passed with everything they needed.. or with in 12 hours after the Hurricane passed.. and that just isn't feasible when the feds were not allowed to put things in place before the hurricane struck. I can appreciate the pets aspect myself, however moving pets with people can be filled with alot of problems and sometimes we must realize that people are more important than our animals. What I mean is if it comes down to someone taking their dogs or someone's kids being saved.. guess want.. the animal loses out. I would feel bad about that but there are such things as priorities.

I appreciate your point of view, Outlooker, BUT i disagree. Pets, people can all go...we should not even encourage an infrastructure that cannot manage both. I believe that you build the infrastructure and that decision to abandon pets won't even be an issue. At all. It's time we took care of all our own and not everyone else in the world. I believe if they are going to hate our guts overseas, let's pull financial support and put in pet caravans for all I care. Again, I am a realist.

No one is saying to encourage the infrastructure to not be able to manage both in most, or even the vast majority of, cases. What is being said is sometimes the situation will dictate the circumstances and determine what is practical to do and not do. Our pets are our responsibility and if we have our own vehicles to use during an evacuation then by all means every pet owner should make room for their own pets. If a person cannot fit their pets in their own POV then perhaps they have too many pets, or the wrong type of pet. In addition pets involve more than dogs, cats, ferrets and even gerbils. Some people have birds, ferrets, snakes and even fish as pets. Are we to make demands upon our cities and states to provide a means to transport these pets as well? If not where do we draw the line. In order to make a system where pets can be evacuated you have to have rules that people abide by. The owners of these pets should have an appropriate carrier for each pet they have, for one thing. We can't demand that our cities and states have billions of pet carriers of all varieties just in case people show up with little fido on a leash or Sydney the fighting rooster in their arms. That is unrealistic to expect our government to plan for every contigency and need. If the pets are properly packaged then it wouldn't hurt for the local entities or the State to supply vehicles to haul these pets with. Another thing is every pet should come with it's own 3 day supply of food.. we can always get water from where-ever the pets go. We've only just begun the logistics in insuring a No pet left behind plan and we can already start to see the cost involved, and some of the problems. The major thing is that we cannot endanger human life for the sake of some animal. If people wish to volunteer to face danger for animals that is fine, they can do that.. but we have to keep our priorities in perspective and the number one priority is that little Janie or Jimmie is more important that King the wonder dog.

I can appreciate the pets aspect myself, however moving pets with people can be filled with alot of problems and sometimes we must realize that people are more important than our animals. What I mean is if it comes down to someone taking their dogs or someone's kids being saved.. guess want.. the animal loses out. I would feel bad about that but there are such things as priorities. ----------------------------------- Outlooker, you bring up a very good point that I think people have missed. There were people stranded on roofs and in attics all over, severe heat dehydration, so many needing emergency medical care - a real crisis situation. Seriously, when human lives are in such danger, it is quite reasonable for rescuers (who are also risking their lives) to set priorities that humans are priority one. I think it terribly sad about the pets, but it was a tragic situation all the way around, especially for the people who died.

No matter how good a disaster preparedness plan is, Murphy's Law is in full effect "If something can go wrong, it most probably will." :) It is terrible about the pets but some will get left for one reason or another. Contigency plans to take pets along can be incorporated in the plan but how do we predetermine how many trucks or planes are needed for pets? Do we figure one per person or maybe 3? There are a ton of questions over how to make taking pets a reality with out endangering humans.

There are a ton of questions over how to make taking pets a reality with out endangering humans. ----------------------------------------- I'd ditto that for sure. I don't mean to minimize Katrina's tragedy, but I think a nuclear or chemical attack on a much larger metropolitan area could be an even worse senario. And in such a case, expediency in getting people out could conceivably make major difference in life or death. I can see it now - the new head of FEMA is blasted for worrying about pets over humanlife.

You have a point. In the first place FEMA and the US Government are really set up better to handle the aftermath of a Nuclear, Biological or Chemical Attack. In the first place the President can declare a National Emergency because of such things and strip the local Mayors and the State Governors of their rights, so to speak.. and a thinking Congress and SCOTUS would allow it because of the very nature of the attack. For Bush to declare a national emergency over Katrina hitting, he'd have to justify it to Congress and SCOTUS.. and odds are they would nail him on some abuse of powers charge and call for his impeachment. So the circumstances of a WMD attack on the US would probably give the Feds the authority they need to just walk in and take over. Moogie actually did bring up a valid thing about the pets issue. We should try to work into the plans the evacuations of pets, if at all possible. This might cause a volunteer force of citizens to go and get the training on driving the vehicles needed for this and maybe even training on how to load and handle these animals so that when disaster strikes they are prepared to do the job they volunteered for. Perhaps entire families can volunteer and by signing out a truck to load pets on, they can also move the family as well. The ideas to make pet evacuation a reality should be explored to see what is possible and what is not.