There is a problem with illegals. Our county is the third largest in the united states with hispanic community growth. It grew 614% JUST THIS YEAR. our infrastructure cannot handle them schools, etc. dss, politce, hispanic gangs. and they don't pay taxes. driving without licenses, no car insurance. They need not be here. We can't handle the crime growth alone. I'm with Outlooker on this. Send them back.

Moogie, Where are you going to send them? They'll be back - there is nothing where they come from, they have nothing to lose. Walls won't stop them, only mega personnel patrolling the borders which will cost major sums to cover every single mile. There is no point in patroling only parts as they will go through where you don't. And what would a wall cost? Who would be employeed to build it? They would. Besides that, many drive across or come in boats. What are they living on when they get here? Sure some resort to crime but not most. We have them here. Most avoid trouble like the plague. Our problems with new members of the community are the ones from NOLA. Illegals are getting work - that is the bottom line of it. But it is illegal work which is why they are not contributing to the tax base. That is why they come. They can survive here. Sure the southern states are really feeling it as we are the points of entry but they don't stay in the south, they migrate north and east and west as they network into jobs in other places. This has gone on for decades. The first one I personnally met was over 20 years ago. There was a house they flowed through down the street from where I lived. He was 19 from Nicaraga, escaping from the Sandinistas our government was supplying with weapons that they were forcing kids as young as 13 to use fighting in their civil war - and yes I said forcing. He got himself, his wife and baby out, then his 14 year old brother. They headed on to Washington DC via underground connections. He planned on next getting his parents out. Do you remember nannygate and the woman Clinton wanted to appoint but then it was discovered she hired illegal immigrants for housework avoiding paying taxes? Do you think she unique of the Washington crowd or the northeast Ivy League elite? So what would happen if you document them and inform them of minimum wage and taxes not only they must pay, but their employers are suppose to pay? Then your tax base would be there. And don't tell me they will disrupt the economy - they have been coming for decades in droves. We just had lower than expected unemployment figures. Our economy is growing right now dispite all the illegals. Plus personnally, I think we could drop immigration quotas from other nations on the other side of the globe and give our next door neighbors who have our same values priority.

Then someone needs to direct them evenly to other places...we cannot take the 614% increase. And crime is huge issue, infrastructure cannot support it. They ARE living for free...half on food stamps, schools swamped, a tremendous amound of illegitimate births, we're swamped. Sorry, this is not the pretty picture you paint.

Now who would be giving illegals food stamps and why?

And Moogie, it is not that I think the situation is pretty - far from it. But I don't think a wall is a solution, nor patrols along the border. Think of how long the border is along Texas all the way to California. Think of the costs of those. My point is, as long as they can get work, and food stamps if that is occurring, they are going to continue coming.

we have immigration laws. They are illegal. Illegal means against the law. Our county and cities are destroyed with the influx. Yes, they go back and enter legally. You have no idea the havoc we have gone thru in 2 years. Let's just say illegal should mean just that. INS needs to have the manpower to ship out. We have the presence of the most dangerous of hispanic gangs exploding. We have a crime rate and mortality that challenges that of new york. Had enough, send them home.

Moogie, we have gangs anyway - the white one is the KKK/white supremists, the Asians have theirs, the blacks have theirs, and hispanics have theirs. I don't think sending illegal hispanic immigrants back home is going to make much difference in that regard. The worst we have here are native born - not the immigrants. Plus they do put in jail criminals when caught. Its a nice thought that that problem could be solved by sending them home but I really don't think it will make much of a dent.

Hi DL, That is true, there have been drives to get illegal immigrants from California and Arizona to go to work in NOLA and other areas damaged by the hurricanes because they are cheap labor and because some groups want to make the illegal immigrants legal. The worst part is that the problem goes deeper than that. I can understand Mayor Nagin's point too, but as a politician he needs to be more careful of how he presents his ideas than you or I. Illegal means illegal and the entire US should be concerned about illegal immigrants. I often wonder how many people understand the fact that these poor Latin-Americans pay thousands of dollars to a coyote to enjoy the fun-filled journey of riding in pick up and stake bed trucks over dirty, bumpy roads for miles only to be dropped off in the middle of the hot desert to hike a hundred miles into the US, only to be picked up along a highway and placed into the back of 18 Wheelers or into vans like cattle to be taken to a "holding pen" in Phoenix or Tucson where up to 100 people are placed in a 1200 to 1600 square foot home. Once there they are forced to go to work, often at minimum wage or less, and half of their paychecks are taken from them by these coyotes for further profit. The worst of it is that many of these coyotes are Mexican or Mexican American and they are basically enslaving their own people for profit. It's a huge industry out this way and if NOLA or the Hurricane hit states are not careful it will expand into their areas as well.

Given his track record of less than pristine press and communications, does anyone think Nagin cares if he offends the hispanic community? They are cleaning some of the nastiest of areas and grateful to work. Not live off our tax dollars. At this point, he should be on his knees thanking them for restoring the worst of the worst. If Nagin didn't say it, I will say thank you to the hispanic labor force that will probably rebuild and live in some of the abandoned homes. He needs to be careful as he is talking to the future "voting community" when and if they become legal. oh, but that would require foresight.

I don't think Nagin really cares, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he might care a little. These illegal immigrants are illegal and often taken advantage of not only by their employers but also by their own people. There are all sorts of scams out there to make the illegal appear legal, including issuing the illegal a social security card under a number already owned by a living person. The employer takes out the proper Social Security amount and it gets applied to someone else's account and if the Illegal cannot retire before the other person then he or she loses all of that money they paid. I will not defend the illegal nor will I attempt to legalize them. They should be sent back to their own country and steps should be taken to secure our borders more. As the jobs appear in the US I am all for increasing the number of legal immigrants into this country.. but I don't abide by illegals and that is for their own good as much as ours.

When I first posted this topic, I didn't consider the fact that most of the workers over there are illegals. I am all for protecting our borders and documenting immigrants from other countries. It would protect our nation and also protect the welfare of the people crossing over. Despite this however, regardless if they are legal or not, I think the mayor should be more than appreciate for the help he is getting. In the same tape piece from ABC where I heard Nagin's comment, there were also other black contractors stating they would only hire their own race, which I understand trying to benefit your own people. But most of those people who evacuated are not returning, and I don't know of reasons why the ones that are still there aren't willing to help. In the end all I can say is be thankful for the help no matter where it comes from and sensitive to the hearts of those willing to do the dirty jobs no one else wants to do.

The Mayor should be grateful to these people for coming and helping to rebuild his city, but illegal still means illegal he shouldn't promote the hiring of illegals to get the job done. He might be able to get away with a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy on this but if he knows these people are illegal he very well can't ignore the fact. There are plenty of legal immigrants and people out of work who could fill the slots, the trouble is that they aren't going to work for pennies on the dollar. As a side note: I can see how doing things for one's own race benefits that race, but that is still racial and technically it's against the law. People are not supposed to hire others according to their race, religious beliefs or sex. These jobs should be given to first come, first serve or to a person based upon their ability. Reverse discrimination is just as bad as discrimination and for as long as these practices are allowed there is no hope in people being equal.

just for clarification, how does Nagin know they are illegals and not green card? Also, undocumented aliens have been accepted by the liberals for a long time as cheap labor force. I personally don't like to whitewash illegal with undocumented, but that comes from state and federal level politicians. Our infrastructure in our county is the third highest leap in hispanics in the nation...614%. Our infrastructure is overextended, schools, department of social services, crime is up, hispanic gangs, drugs, traffic, cars being driven with no insurance. We are not able to deal with it. Perhaps my agenda is here it would be a relief to see them move on. But also, i question that Nagin knows for a fact that these workers are illegal and is he going to send in buses to ship them back to Mexico? I don't mean that snidely, I just wonder what he is really able to do. Quite frankly, I prefer those who work over those who don't. I'm relieved there is a workforce of any kind in NO. I hope that Nagin is willing to work with all the workers and not create a racially hostile environment.

The whitewashing of illegal immigrants by calling them Undocumented Workers is a thing politicians, politicos and the Media loves to do. It is also a thing I do not condone, I believe they should be called what they are, Illegal Immigrants, and they should be treated as illegals. I figure that no immigrants should be in this country if they are not willing to work. The last thing we need to do is create a huge welfare state. I believe any immigrant should be entitled to the proper pay and benefits and if a person is found to be hiring illegals, then that person is responsible to give these illegals the balance of what they should have been paying all along before the illegal gets deported. I take the hardline against illegals and those who employ them.

I've been to Mexico and cannot in any kind of human conscious begrude these people for coming to the US illegally. I would do exactly the same if in their shoes. I cannot however, in moral or ethical terms, justify the exploitation of them that goes on. I've seen them work and not be paid with the American thinking they could get away with it. It is actually against the law to not pay wages owed, even if it is illegal immigrants. I also cannot fathom having some enormous fence built along our border. The very land I live on use to be theirs anyway. Just as it shuts them out, it shuts me in. Being in Texas, I see quite a number of them. Most are incredibly hard workers, very decent people with a great culture. (And they love soccer) I wonder that they really tax our social services that much as most live in fear of being caught. Companies are leaving the US to go to countries where the wages are cheaper. Seems we'd be better to allow the situation as few adults here want minimum wage anyway and few are willing to do the manaul labor. I also think the future of the world is about open borders, not closed ones.

I've been to Mexico, Central America and South America, btdt, and I agree with you.. I cannot begrudge these people in wanting to come to America (legally or illegally). The transfer of land-ownership is an age long practice. A favorite cry today is that the land in the southwest belonged to the Mexican, however these screamers fail to say that the Mexicans got the land from the French and Spanish, who took the land from the Indian by conquest mostly, who took the land because they happened to come here from other places. Even the American Indian claimed land with out regards to who may have actually owned it. Another thing these people fail to mention when they say the Indian believed the land belonged to the people is that Indian Tribe killed for their land and stole land and property from other tribes. No matter who may have owned this land we call the US, the fact is we own it now. We bought much of it, we took some by conquest, other bits we gained by default. It is ours and who owned it 200, 500 or 10,000 years ago is a moot point for if we start doing that then we should do that all over the world and that means every country on earth would have to return their lands to someone. Someday, btdt, The countries of North America will no longer be as they are now. Whoever takes possession of these lands will own them and it won't matter that I and almost over 400,000 million others own this land now. The land will be theirs to do with what they wish and we won't be able to do much about it. Open borders to me means one-world governments and I oppose that. I believe in the sovereignty of nations. Yes companies are leaving the US for the purpose of cheap labor, cheaper resources and less strict laws. The problem is that our government for years has been rewarding American Companies for doing this. Both Democrat and Republican were involved. I've always felt our government should penalize companies for going overseas and Americans should be made to realize the meaning of "A Fair Day's Wage for a Fair Day's Work". When you are a janitor or ditch digger, you can't expect to live in the same way a Heart Surgeon or people like Bill Gates lives. In some cases many salaries and hourly wages should be lowered, while other raise a little.. but in our type of society you can't do that by force. The salaries people get are determined by the importance of the job, in theory.

I know the history on land ownership and I understand there is much practicality to it, people have always formed clans for mutual protection and laid territorial domanance, many animal species do it as well. But I doubt we are going to be able to "close borders" as a practicality of the future. As far as Texas, considering the percent of hispanics living here and birthrate, they will be reclaiming Texas anyway in the next few decades, wall or no wall, immigrants or not. I also know in the history of this country, there have been periods of intense racial resentment directed towards particular immigrants usually with ideas they are taking away jobs from "natives" - American born descendants of other immigrants. This is the point about Mexicans in NOLA except the truth is, the initial inhibatants of NOLA don't want the jobs anyway. The Chinese and Asians got it in the late 1800's, southern Europeans got it the first of the 20th century, now Hispanics from Mexico are getting it. Fact is, these groups actually contributed to great accummulation of wealth in the hands of what history calls "corporate robber barons". Those railroads were not built by "heart surgeons" or with private funds, they were built with tax dollars, most of which went into the pockets of a few certain people like Vanderbilt, not the people who financed them nor the people who slaved literally building the things. Same thing is happening again in NOLA - all this work is being paid for by tax dollars. The first part of this century saw people and children who worked long hard hours in very unsafe conditions and yet still, lived in deplorable gross proverty. You know, people in this country got tired of seeing the reality of it. Regulations including minimum wage only proved to the better interests of all except a very few individuals. We are not now like Mexico where there are two classes - the rich and the poor, but we could become such. But it won't be because of illegal immigration - it will be because of those who exploit the immigrants. That is why nothing has been done currently - corporate America wants the cheap labor, they don't want to provide benefits, they want to maximize their own personal wealth as if the tax dollars don't pay top dollar, and it is just fine that the taxpayer pay the consequences of having to school the kids and provide free medical care.

The Hispanics have been trying to reclaim the whole southwest for many years now, at least 20 I know of. I don't foresee the US breaking up, not unless some catastrophe strikes that causes a reconfiguration of the states. I figure if that happens then you may wind up with an American Anglo nation in the southwest here, perhaps even an Asian-Hispanic nation. The American Hispanics wouldn't join with Mexico, at least I don't foresee that. These "Americans" would want to rule themselves. Actually I think the railroads were built more with private funds. In the 1850s the Baltimore and Ohio was built by leading merchants and bankers, as was the Pennsylvania Railroad. Other Railroads throughout the nation were also funded by Merchants and Bankers. The Transcontinental Railroad was funded by the Union Pacific, Central Pacific and heavily funded by the Congress through Land Grants and government credit. Credit had to be paid back in some way, but I don't recall it as ever being repaid. The Chinese and Asians were mostly employed by the Union Pacific on the eastward construction, the Irish and those of European descent (along with blacks) were the main workforce on the westward construction. You also forget that many of these "Robber Barons" laid it on the line and sunk a great deal of their wealth into the railroads. Some of them actually came out of the deal richer than ever, some went bankrupt and disappeared from the annals of history. Investors have a funny quirk that dictates they want a return on their money and those Robber Barons that failed to deliver went by the wayside and made room for others to continue on. So when you look at the railroads, they were actually mostly built by private funding, not federal. In America we actually still have 4 or 5 classes, but most people do not want to recognize them. We have the poor, the middle class, the upper class and the stinking rich. I remember reading articles about the Kennedies back in the 70s and it said John (or father Joe) was worth under $10 million dollars and he was considered Poor by the really wealthy. The higher echelon didn't consider a person as rich until they had over $10 mil. I thought "Awe, the poor Kennedies." lol

Plagurizing from a paper my son just wrote - "By the time of the Civil War, 30,000 miles of track had been laid mainly in the eastern states. These first lines had been financed by municipal governments and businessmen. Most ran only short local distances but had by this time, been connected to each other. In 1862 and 1864, the Pacific Railway Acts were passed which provided for the direct grant of public land to corporations who built a trans-continental railroad system. For every mile of track, the railroad company received 12,800 acres. A subsidy of $48,000 was paid for every mile built in mountainous terrain. A 30 year subsidized loan below market price was given as well. The first contracts were given to Central Pacific to build from the west, and the Union Pacific to build from the east, both meeting in Promontory Point, Utah. This line was completed in 1869. The Northern Pacific Railroad connecting the northwest to the east was completed in 1882. Four other trans-continental lines were developed by 1890. " "Federal policies of subsidies to railroad companies were intended to encourage and support the development of a transportation system across the country, thus encouraging settlement and the growth of business. They however, resulted in displaying some of the most obvious cases of business and corporate corruption typical during this period (The Gilded Age). The Credit Mobilier Scandal of 1872-1872 offers a good example. The Union Pacific Railroad created a company, Credit Mobilier, for giving out contracts to build the railroad. They sold at cheap prices or gave shares to influential congressmen who just happened to be the ones approving federal subsidies for the costs of the railroad construction. As a consequent, the railroad builders made huge profits. A great political scandal resulted when the New York Sun newspaper broke the story." Railroads were the first attacked in reforms (Anti- antitrust)due to corruption, price fixing, etc. Vanderbilt is a rags to riches story. Carnegie was another who became the wealthiest man in the world thanks to steel - used in the railroads, both known to be ruthless. From what I remember of Kennedy, he made his off of scams (then legal) in the stock market before Black Tuesday - he had shorted the market and was one of very few who profited that day. These guys didn't fund the railroads but they did spur growth in the country by reinvesting their profits into other new industries.

That's interesting, btdt, but what sources did he use for the information? I know mine are common enough sources. Additionally I never said that only merchants and bankers supported the railroads, however in the early years of building them this is where the bulk of the money came from for the Government didn't have a ton of money.. and remember the part I said about government credit. In the early to mid 1900s the government began sinking lots of money into the railroad and in the 60s the government tried to save the railroad.