I didn't play a victim card.  I played the top runner card.  In other words, Christianity tends to hold more respect in our nations than other schools of thought.  Thus, those schools of thought naturally wish to beat the top runner off its platform by slandering rather than by proofs.

   Seriously, if any naturalist ever wanted to sway the population to believe origins in a naturalist/evolutionist sense, then why don't they provide actual evidence and proof?  Sure, they provide "proof" enough to say they themselves believe what they believe.  But that does not good.  You have to show proof that others around you can see and believe.  Yet it doesn't happen.  Why?  Well, the naturalist will always claim its because of brainwashing of religion.  Nice placement of blame.  Also a nice insult to the same crowd you wish to win over, yea that'll do you a lot of good.  How about the real reason now?  Because the naturalistic and evolutionistic explanations of origins do not have the proofs needed to sway the normal intelligent mind unless that mind already wishes and desires to believe said argument.

I didn't play a victim card.  I played the top runner card.  In other words, Christianity tends to hold more respect in our nations than other schools of thought.  Thus, those schools of thought naturally wish to beat the top runner off its platform by slandering rather than by proofs.

I think in most developed nations science is the top runner, though I accept things are a bit backward in America, as this poll shows:

http://www.livescience.com/health/060810_evo_rank.html

Whereas in Europe and Japen about 80% accept evolution in America less than half do.

Seriously, if any naturalist ever wanted to sway the population to believe origins in a naturalist/evolutionist sense, then why don't they provide actual evidence and proof?


There is plenty of evidence and a number of very good popular science books are available to even those without a scientific background get get to grips with the subject, but it appears many with strongly held religious beliefs would rather not look at evidence which they think may undermine their faith.


However, scientific knowledge does seem to play a part. According to one poll, 95% of Americans with a scientific qualification say they believe in evolution.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm


Another problem may be that most scientists are not too bothered about what ordinary people think or aren't particularly good at communicating their ideas to the general public, though there are some notable exceptions.

You posted:  "I am an athiest BUT there is little doubt that a man named Jesus that some consider the mesiah existed and was put to death. There are Roman text documents from the time documenting it. "

 

 

Bless you.

 

I have been looking for what you describe for ages and have not found those documents. Can you please help me find them?

 

I know  the account in Josephus was forged by second century Christians. I know the account in Tacitus merely indicates that there were a group of people in Rome 50 years after the death of our Lord who believed there was someone named Christ who lived and died at the hands of Romans.

 

I know that the account in Pliny identifies that Pliny had a group that called themselves Christians but says absolutely nothing about our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

I know that Paul speaks very little in his 7 epistles about Jesus .. mostly just about his own travels and ministry to pagans and the pagan churches he founded.

 

I know that the early Christians in the second century were very concerned about the complete lack of recognition that even Paul received at the time as though he didn't exist and so they took to forging letters between Paul and Seneca. I also know of the forgeries in the name of Pilate.

 

I am extremely excited that you know of documents that  show our Lord's trial, his execution, his birth, and even some eyewitness accounts of his ministry.

 

We Christians are desperate for the documentation that you know of. We are tired of the atheists slamming us for basing our belief on four writers who had never even met Jesus.

 

Thank you ever so much in advance.

 

 

In respons to Jesus as a God, who ever said this, Jesus is known as the "Son Of GoD" his only child, he was born into this world in flesh, to see what we see and feel what we feel, love, pain, sorrow, to take the burden of man's sin's. You are way off brother, you have yet to see "GOD" Maybe know one has earned that honor, but, thats where faith comes in.

First of all, Jesus was not god, he claimed to be the son of God. And his presence  on this earth was recorded by several sources besides Paul. He was'nt a bragger so he did not boast and inflate himself like most other historical figures. He was a simple man who died for what he beleived in and the future of mankind was number one on his list. You don't have to beleive in him if you don't want to. You have a free will. Which means you have a choice. All of histories people were written about, how do you know they existed either or that there stories were'nt embellished and transformed through the centuries. You don't, you were'nt there and you are accepting the words of people who were there. Are all men liars. Distortion is a part of all history. Jesus was not out for himself and he had nothing to gain by dying except to please his father and save humanity.Jesus did exist, there is no point of making up a story about him for nothing,who would gain by this fable.

And his presence  on this earth was recorded by several sources besides Paul.

 

Please share them.

there is no point of making up a story about him for nothing,who would gain by this fable.

 

By that "logic," Zeus also exists.  After all, "there's no point in making up a story about him for nothing, who would gain by this fable."

 

And for crying out loud learn a little grammar.

Please share them.

 

 

 

 

Funny how this never seems to get a response.......

Maybe you should try praying and asking him to make him self real to you.  Then you would believe, here is a question if Christians are wrong about Jesus what do they have to loose?  But what if you are wrong?  Really think about that and don't just chalk this up to another Nut Job trying to get you to believe.  I will say though if you don't have an open mind about this it won't do you any good to pray.  But trust me as a former agnostic, if you open your mind to the possibilities of God and a messiah and you give him a chance he will answer you and make him self real to you.