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  • From: subodot
  •   To: kidspastorNC
  • 12 of 144
  • 3/17/12
I do understand. Sometimes adamant anti religion is as distasteful and horrible as any given extreme religion.
  • From: OringAbout
  •   To: subodot
  • 13 of 144
  • 3/18/12

I do understand. Sometimes adamant anti religion is as distasteful and horrible as any given extreme religion. [Post #12]

 

I’ll agree that if you take all of the activities of religion on the one hand and all of the activities of “anti-religion” on the other then you are quite likely to find one or more items in the “anti-religion” pile that are worse than one or more items in the religion one. But I think it is important to weigh them all together. And in which case I think you would agree that the religion pile is going to be quite a bit worse.

  • From: subodot
  •   To: OringAbout
  • 14 of 144
  • 3/18/12
That would be true especially if you did a ratio proportion problem because their are simply more religious than not. Not to mention the fact than many non-religious simply do not feel a need to propagandize it as a movement, but prefer to stay passive in their non-belief.
  • From: Nelbrewster
  •   To: subodot
  • 15 of 144
  • 3/25/12
There are many essays on tolerance and how it morphs into a different kind of control. I always prefer respect myself. You don't have to respect what others believe but you should respect their right to believe it. I also respect people's rights to be left alone.
  • From: OringAbout
  •   To: Nelbrewster
  • 16 of 144
  • 3/25/12

You don't have to respect what others believe but you should respect their right to believe it. [Post #15]

 

Now, that is a very sensible position.  The semi-recent murder and mayhem committed by “peace-loving” Muslims over the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy being a case in point.

  • From: Nelbrewster
  •   To: OringAbout
  • 17 of 144
  • 4/5/12
We have that to lesser degrees everywhere. When people believe that theirs is the only possible truth and they also have a need to have power over pothers, these things will happen. Closed minds harm everyone.
  • From: kidspastorNC
  •   To: Nelbrewster
  • 18 of 144
  • 4/13/12

When people believe that theirs is the only possible truth and they also have a need to have power over pothers, these things will happen. Closed minds harm everyone.



I agree with you here, Nel to a certain degree.  I don't think being convinced that one's religion/faith is true is necessarily being closed minded. 

  • From: rmbrown0926
  •   To: kidspastorNC
  • 19 of 144
  • 4/13/12

I agree with you here, Nel to a certain degree.  I don't think being convinced that one's religion/faith is true is necessarily being closed minded. 

 

******************

 

Not at all.  When Jesus spoke of the "meek" inheriting the earth, he was not referring to weak-willed, lily-livered folks.

 

The word "meek" means "teachable."

  • From: Nelbrewster
  •   To: kidspastorNC
  • 20 of 144
  • 4/14/12
I agree with you here, Nel to a certain degree.  I don't think being convinced that one's religion/faith is true is necessarily being closed minded.
---------------------
I think the problem is not accepting the possibility that one could be a little off the mark while accepting that others feel the same about their beliefs and are not ignorant. In most cases people misrepresent the religions of others due to not having direct contact or judging superficially.
  • From: Nelbrewster
  •   To: rmbrown0926
  • 21 of 144
  • 4/14/12
The word "meek" means "teachable."
--------------------------
Nonsense...that is not what the word means and if Jesus meant "teachable" then the translator needs to be exhumed and beaten. Meek means enduring injury with patience and without resentment . Again Jesus is talking about behavior.
  • From: OringAbout
  •   To: kidspastorNC
  • 22 of 144
  • 4/14/12

I don't think being convinced that one's religion/faith is true is necessarily being closed minded. [Post #18]

 

True, with “necessarily” being particularly relevant. Although I would say that refusing to admit that one might be wrong probably closes the door – and latches and bolts it as well. Do you think that that might possibly apply to you?

  • From: Nelbrewster
  •   To: OringAbout
  • 23 of 144
  • 4/14/12
Although I would say that refusing to admit that one might be wrong probably closes the door – and latches and bolts it as well.
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eggs sack tilly!
  • From: rmbrown0926
  •   To: Nelbrewster
  • 24 of 144
  • 4/14/12

I think the problem is not accepting the possibility that one could be a little off the mark.

 

*****************

 

I believe what Jesus taught.  If that's off the mark, then Jesus was off the mark.

 

 

  • From: rmbrown0926
  •   To: Nelbrewster
  • 25 of 144
  • 4/14/12

Meekness is the character trait God’s word invites us to:

Seek after. “Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness; it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD’s anger” (Zephaniah 2:3, KJV).

Put on. “Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering” (Colossians 3:12, KJV).

Follow after. “But thou, O man of God, . . . follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness” (1 Timothy 6:11, KJV).

 

“Blessed are the meek.” By being teachable we will be led by the spirit of God to relinquish the “reins” of our lives into his hands. By so doing, we grant him the freedom to guide and direct us. The difference between self-guidance and heavenly guidance is that ours is feeble and uncertain, his is never failing and eternal.

http://www.heraldmag.org/2002/02mj_4.htm

  • From: OringAbout
  •   To: rmbrown0926
  • 26 of 144
  • 4/14/12

The difference between self-guidance and heavenly guidance is that ours is feeble and uncertain, his is never failing and eternal. [Post #25]

 

And if there isn’t any divine entity there at the controls, at the steering wheel? Looks to me like driving blind. You’re entitled to do that if you wish – although one might argue that in that case you’re a hazard to everyone else on the road. But you certainly don’t have any right to insist that anyone else do so – directly or indirectly.

  • From: kidspastorNC
  •   To: OringAbout
  • 27 of 144
  • 4/14/12

I don't think being convinced that one's religion/faith is true is necessarily being closed minded. [Post #18]

True, with “necessarily” being particularly relevant. Although I would say that refusing to admit that one might be wrong probably closes the door – and latches and bolts it as well. Do you think that that might possibly apply to you?


My knowlege is limited and imperfect so I'd be a fool to say I can't be wrong.  But when it comes to the existence of God and Him revealing Himself through Jesus Christ and the Bible, I don't think I am wrong.  I am convinced.  I don't know all there is to know about God for sure and never will.  I have become convinced through various forms of evidence and through my own religious experience.  But, I would not say that I never question my beliefs.  If something I believe is challenged, I try not to ignore that but to explore it.  There are some things that over the years, I have believed but did not really know why I believed them so it has been a journey of understanding.  Some things I don't have answers for.  But, I have faith in what/who I do know and what I have become convinced of.

  • From: rmbrown0926
  •   To: kidspastorNC
  • 28 of 144
  • 4/15/12

Thanks so much for being willing to share your faith on these threads.  I wonder why the atheists don't use the atheism message board. 

 

Maybe because the temptation to ridicule people of faith is too strong to resist.

  • From: Nelbrewster
  •   To: rmbrown0926
  • 29 of 144
  • 4/15/12

 

I believe what Jesus taught.  If that's off the mark, then Jesus was off the mark.

-----------------------

Other Christians do not agree with your interpretation of what Jesus taught. So it would be better not to belittle the educated beliefs of others.

  • From: Nelbrewster
  •   To: rmbrown0926
  • 30 of 144
  • 4/15/12
Meek means willing to suffer without complaint.
  • From: OringAbout
  •   To: kidspastorNC
  • 31 of 144
  • 4/15/12

There are some things that over the years, I have believed but did not really know why I believed them so it has been a journey of understanding. [Post #27]

 

As dlaw and a number of others have suggested, belief and what we believe and why we believe it is a very complex and intricate, although very interesting, topic – and one of some relevance and importance to both our personal survival and that of the species. The French anthropologist Pascal Boyer has written a number of books on belief in a religious context – though I haven’t read any of them yet myself – and he has argued that “most cognitive processes are not accessible to conscious inspection”.

 

For examples, he also suggested that our use of language is of that nature, and we all generally accept – believe with some certainty – that we have something closely approximating free-will, and we all think or assume that we are made of solid material when the facts of that matter are that we are mostly empty space.

 

But considering the prevalence of various cognitive illusions, I think it very important to be questioning our assumptions. For instance there is the rather marvelous spinning dancer illusion – akin to the illusion of wagon-wheels in Western movies spinning backwards – while justifies the argument, I think, that frequently what we think is the case is anything but. And which I think is very much the situation with religion and various religious experiences and “revelations”. Considering that there have been literally thousands of different gods that have been worshipped by humanity over tens of millennia, I would say that it is highly improbable that they are or were all true – that the dancer is spinning both clockwise and counter-clockwise – and that something more fundamental is taking place.

 

Hence the value, if not the necessity, for things such as the cognitive science of religion in a general context, and for questioning, if not ridiculing, various specific religious beliefs in specific ones.

 
 
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