I posted the jist of this on the "forcing religions" thread and for some reason it got mod-bliterated. But as that thread is out of control long, I'll say it here. It was originally directed to packman regarding his statements about tolerance. As I said there, I think of tolerance as "you do your thing, I'll do mine" and generally keeping the "you're wrong" comments out of it. I personally think that people are drawn to the spiritual path they need to be drawn to, be it Christian, Jewish, etc. Sometimes it's the path that is prevelent in their culture. Sometimes it's not. It was stated that because I feel strongly about Christians "forcing religion" on others that I am not tolerant...that I want them to change their faith to not include trying to convert others. BUT I have never expected or asked any Christian to change the core of their beliefs. I've even said I can accept that they think I'll burn in hell, I just don't want them telling me about it. I don't care if they think I'm deluded by Satan, I just want them to have some tact and not mention it. I am totally okay with them telling me the great things God has done in their lives. I just want them to accept that God-in-another-form has done equally great things in mine. The Christians on this board, however, are dead set on getting me to abandon the faith that I have committed myself to for 25 years, that I have ritually bonded myself to, and which has been at times has forced me to grow and change as an individual. And apparently just on their say-so.

BUT I have never expected or asked any Christian to change the core of their beliefs. What if evangelism IS one of their core beliefs?

What if evangelism IS one of their core beliefs? Then we have a conflict between my desire to be left alone and their desire to abuse me. To me, the attempt to convert me is abuse and is harmful to me. They are just doing it without fists.

Then we have a conflict between my desire to be left alone and their desire to abuse me. Therein lies the problem.

Yes, and I have not suggestion or idea on how to resolve that conflict. It is beyond me.

Yes, and I have not suggestion or idea on how to resolve that conflict. --- Well as I think Ladybug suggested, let's start with ending accusations that our non-fundamentalist views belong to Satan, and that we are doomed to hell. Is that right, Ladybug? :)

I agree on that point 200%!

So do I! I also want to stop being told that I only chose my beliefs because they are "warm and fuzzy" and "agree with stuff I already thought". As for evangelism being one of their core beliefs, well, yes, if that is the case then it is an unsolveable conundrum. Tho' I would hazard a suggestion that their evangelism be more tactful and respectful. There is a big difference between being told "you are going to burn in hell" and "I believe you are going to burn in hell".

As for evangelism being one of their core beliefs, well, yes, if that is the case then it is an unsolveable conundrum. Unfortunately, Ladybug, I think that is the situation as it presents itself. As I understand it, and this is open for debate, "spreading the good word" is a fundamental christian principle. It is one of the reasons christianity has spread so far and so quickly. I would suggest that the only solution is to remain strong in your particular faith and continue to fight the good fight and stand up for your beliefs. It is a worthy cause; you have every right in the world to believe as you do.

As I understand it, and this is open for debate, "spreading the good word" is a fundamental christian principle. ------ I think for Evangelists it is, for others not-- at least that's the impression I have.

Are there evangelicals in other countries beside the US? I lived overseas for nearly five years and I never encountered a fundie, whereas I live in arguably the most liberal part of America and they are everywhere (or at least it feels like it). Based on all I have read or heard, the fundie movement as we have experienced it on this board is largely a US movement. While less extreme Christian groups still have missions to the less-developed world, they aren't quite as "convert or else" as they used to be. And the Christians in Europe and elsewhere do not have the tendency toward fundamentalism.

Unfortunately, Ladybug, I think that is the situation as it presents itself. As I understand it, and this is open for debate, "spreading the good word" is a fundamental christian principle. It is one of the reasons christianity has spread so far and so quickly. Sadly, that has certainly been what it seems like on the board. But I still say there are positive and respectful evangelizing techniques and negative and nasty ones. I would suggest that the only solution is to remain strong in your particular faith and continue to fight the good fight and stand up for your beliefs. It is a worthy cause; you have every right in the world to believe as you do. Thanks! I know I do!

But I still say there are positive and respectful evangelizing techniques and negative and nasty ones. Agreed. I guess you could view those nasty folks as an opportunity. You can take the high road. Do a little evangelizing of your own - the UU version. You know... emphasize tolerance and the golden rule.

Right! That's the point I was trying to make below. You do far more credit to your faith by showing the good in you than by blaming the bad in others.

You do far more credit to your faith by showing the good in you than by blaming the bad in others. Right on. SC, you are a gem on this board!

I think that all of us are blind, and maybe some of us more than others, but essentially, on this board we are all blind, no matter what side we are on. What I mean by that is, the very thing we criticize "the other side" for, we do ourselves. We say, I go by the golden rule -- treat others as you want to be treated. Then we trash someone and/or their beliefs saying either "you are brainwashed" or "you are of the devil" and then say we are victimized or abused by the "other side".

I think that all of us are blind, and maybe some of us more than others, but essentially, on this board we are all blind, no matter what side we are on. What I mean by that is, the very thing we criticize "the other side" for, we do ourselves. Okay, in that case I'm going to step up and try to be positive. packfan, you are obviously a good and devout person. We say, I go by the golden rule -- treat others as you want to be treated. Then we trash someone and/or their beliefs saying either "you are brainwashed" or "you are of the devil" and then say we are victimized or abused by the "other side". Yeah, so now you say something nice about me! :)