In the days leading up to Katrina, former FEMA Director Michael Brown sent jocular e-mails to colleagues about his clothing, finding a dog-sitter and asking if he could quit, an investigation revealed. The House panel investigating the government?s slow response to the storm has released pages of internal e-mail dating from before Katrina hit on Aug. 29 in which Brown appears focused on issues other than the catastrophe at hand. Brown resigned as director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency on Sept. 12 after being made the main scapegoat for the government?s lack of preparedness for Katrina, which killed more than 1,000 people. Shortly after 7 a.m. on the morning of the storm, a FEMA public affairs official sent Brown an e-mail complimenting him on the outfit he wore during a national television briefing. In response to the e-mail, whose subject was ?Re: New Orleans update,? Brown said, ?I got it at Nordstroms,? then added, ?Are you proud of me? Can I quit now? Can I go home?? Hours later, Brown received e-mails about levee breaches and pieces falling off the roof of the New Orleans Superdome, used as a shelter during the storm. There is more on this story at the following link. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9912186/

This is NEWS!! From the first days it happened, it didn't make sense to me. I've lived through hurricanes - Katrina did not hit New Orleans as a category 5!! Those levees should have held, the ones that didn't were fairly new - all were concrete walls along canals. Canals would not get the currents that the lake or river could get. http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-11-10-voa68.cfm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20051110-12300900-bc-us-levees.xml NEW ORLEANS, Nov. 10 (UPI) -- New Orleans' failed 17th Street Canal levee was seven feet shallower than the U.S. Corps of Engineers claimed, it was reported Thursday. Related Headlines Army Corps declares New Orleans dry (October 11, 2005) -- The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers declared victory Tuesday in New Orleans, reporting that it had pumped all the water -- 224 billion gallons -- out of ... > full story New Orleans gets new flooding from Rita (September 23, 2005) -- New flooding hit New Orleans' low-lying 9th Ward Friday as water poured over a section of the Industrial Canal levee under repair. The levee ... > full story La. canals closed ahead of Hurricane Rita (September 21, 2005) -- The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Wednesday closed two damaged New Orleans-area canals to protect against storm surges from Hurricane Rita. While ... > full story New Orleans mayor orders everyone out (September 6, 2005) -- Those refusing to leave New Orleans should be removed by force, the flood-ravaged city's mayor ordered Tuesday night. A statement from the ... > full story Troops find grisly scenes in New Orleans (September 6, 2005) -- Troops scouring New Orleans for survivors and victims reported finding at least 40 mutilated bodies in the Convention Center refugee ... > full story An LSU investigative team, using ground sonar, found that sheet piling supporting the floodwall extended just 10 feet below sea level, not 17 feet as advertised, the New Orleans Times-Picayune said Thursday. The first reading was taken about 150 yards south of the break that allowed water from Lake Pontchartrain to inundate the city Aug. 30. The finding strengthened earlier findings that faulty design and construction played a role in the canal breaches that flooded much of New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina. The Corps declined immediate comment. Independent engineers have questioned whether the pilings, even at the Corps' stated depth, went down far enough to support the floodwalls and prevent storm surge from penetrating beneath the earthen levees and causing structural failure. The Corps said the bottom of the canal was 18.5 feet deep. Copyright 2005 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved.

You're right, btdt. This is very interesting news. Was this tragedy preventable? I'll be very interested in reading about the prosecutors findings. That being said, I've been reading for years about New Orleans' particular vulnerability to hurricanes. Here's an article that was written last February, predicting potential hurricane devastation in New Orleans. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0209_050209_wetlands.html Here's another article written about New Orleans' levee system that you might find interesting. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0902_050902_katrina_levees.html

Abby, All the hypothetical predictions are about category 4 and 5 storms hitting New Orleans which is very unlikely to ever happen and didn't happen with Katrina. They are based on water breaching over her lake levees and flooding the city. They can tout their horn all they want based on end results and say "I told you so" but fact is, the predictions are not what happened. Things to note: New Orleans is not exactly a coastal city - she does not sit on the gulf shoreline like Gulfport or Biloxi Mississippi and communities south of New Orleans who were destroyed by storm surge. She does has a lake shore on her north side that feeds in the Gulf subject to getting high water but she has a fair amount of land buffer that will weaken most storms. (This and the continental plate causing shallow water on the coast different than Florida is why the likelihood of ever a cat 5 is so remote). This is a map showing what I'm trying to say. As you can see, the lake is not going to have the currents that coastal waters would have in a storm. http://tinyurl.com/ajllz Now important to note is that Katrina hit southern Louisian, turned and came in on Miss. NO got the dry side of the storm. Miss took the eye and wet side. Katrina was a cat 5 when she was in the Gulf, she was a cat 3 when she hit New Orleans, she did not flood the city by sending water over the levee tops of her lake. Levees breaking caused the flooding. These levees were relatively new, they were concrete walls. They were in canals - not directly on the lake so even less strong currents caused by the storm. Most of NO's levees held up fine but these were built at different times and in different manner by different contracto. These levees were suppose to be designed to withstand cat 3. I am skeptical that they even had the force of cat 3 put on them being that they were in canals. So the important point is that they failed structurally when they should not have. Katrina is the scapegoat, not the culprit. This is why they are now getting investigrated for criminal activity. It may end up the technology was bad but there is great possibility that their contractor pulled a scam. [Post edited to correct formatting problem created by long URL] Message was edited by: ABCMonitors

I see your point, and I think you're right, btdt.

Miss took the eye and wet side. Katrina was a cat 5 when she was in the Gulf, she was a cat 3 when she hit New Orleans, she did not flood the city by sending water over the levee tops of her lake. Levees breaking caused the flooding. ++++++++++ where exactly did the eye hit, was it Pearl River Louisiana, which is basically located on the state line of Miss/ La ? My area is about 10 miles southwest of Pearl River. If it was a cat 5 when it hit that area , its kind of good news for me, My house held up pretty well. 3 small holes in the roof and few trees down. Fence damaged where limbs and trees hit it, deck shifted a bit but deck cover only suffered a little dent. The storm surge from Lake Ponchartrain is what destroyed the house. Does anybody have a link to the actual track?

Eastman, I think this really says more to Brown's defense than it does to discredit him. People under stress with tremendous responsibly very commonly break and laugh - it is a defense mechanism. Gee, so he was looking for someone to cover his own pets, that means he saw the demand on him. "Can I quit now. Can I go home?" only represents that he was feeling the pressure and stress of his job. We are talking about a single human having to deal with the worst crisis that has ever occurred in this country in context of Louisiana politicians who were totally inept and in shock. It would talk a lot of money for me to trade shoes with him and I doubt the job pays that much.

Hi btdt, I swore I answered this one, and others, before. :) These people really need to get a real life, as do those who latch onto things like this. I grew up around firemen and policemen, later in life I have been around engineers, doctors, nurses, military and other groups of people whom we classify as "Professionals" and in each and every case they are no different than the factory workers I worked with or the Service Station Personnel or even the Salesmen and Car Lot attendents. What I mean is that people joke with their work-mates and friends, even while on duty. The more stressful the job is the more people seem to say the oddest things to create a little levity to help bleed off the stress. Some things are running jokes and they get to the point of just saying the "Punchline" or "Jab", other things can be quite bizarre and disgusting to people who observe or hear about the things that were said. I've heard doctors and nurses make statements that many people would recoil from and find highly offensive, but they reserve such things for more private setting and usually for when they are around people they can trust to understand why such things are said. The very idea of every waking moment during a stressful time or serious situation having to be nothing but proper statements and such is absurd. Sometimes a little levity goes a long way to helping the situation by bleeding off stress and anxieties. I think it's time for people to quit nitpicking and come into the real world.

"I think it's time for people to quit nitpicking and come into the real world." --------------------------------------- Oh I so agree with you Outlooker but I think a fair amount of this is driven by ulterior motives to do anything and everything possible to discredit the Bush administration.

I totally agree. Some Americans are so set to try to undermine the president at the most sensitive time in our recent history because some mindless morons who can't find a real job get their mugs on TV and spout inanities until be begin to think they are true.

Ditto Outlooker, well said "again". FEMA was so hampered by antiquated processes and laws and Lousianna was hampered by it's own ineptitude, that it was perfect storm. Large government organization and large corporations by sheer size do not turn on a dime like a speed boat. Of course sean penn can go get a leaky boat in a day and push for a photo opt. But a single individual is not responsible for the masses, it not apples to apples. Given that FEMA had no idea of the almost childlike clients in Lousianna and it's own overbearing size, I'm sure Brown laughed and cried.

LOL Moogie. Despite what it may appear to some, I really do not like FEMA and I especially don't like having to defend those prima-donnas. lol However I like even less blaming someone, or something, that I feel is not to blame - or not to blame enough to point the finger of blame at. My hypocrisy only goes so far. LOL The concept of FEMA is a good one, I never denied that. They are supposed to be a National Emergency Management Team sent in to coordinate the emergency teams on the local and state level with the teams nation wide and those under the control of the US Government. That is really all they are supposed to be and they are not designed to have vast resources of men, equipment and supplies of their own. These men, equipment and supplies were to be from the US Military, the cities and states of the US, other countries, etc. They also were supposed to come up with National Emergency Contigencies which would act as the basis of all the disaster plans made by Cities, Counties and States across America. However people are led to believe that FEMA is supposed to be this mystical, magical force that comes in 100,000 strong with everything they need with in minutes after a disaster strikes. That is unreal and I oppose Bush when he says things to lead the people of this country to believe that the US Government can have a force of Federal Emergency Teams which can respond to any disaster which occurs in the US with in hours. It's possible, if you want a 2 million man outfit which is supplied and equipped better than the US Military. But who really wants to pay for that and how do we pay for that? Are the Artsy types willing to give up their Federal Funding? How about those pushing for Education? Are these people willing to give up their federal funding for something like this? We can go down the line, but the fact is no one wants their own rice bowls taken away to fund this, but many of these people would say we can get the funding elsewhere.

LOL Outlooker for intelligent rational mature thinking!! I don't think FEMA needs redefining or expansion which is what happens in these events more because of partisan politics than necessity and practicality. The federal government is not efficient at anything, never was and really can't be realistically which is one reason it is important to maintain local governments and responsibilities. But I do think reinterpretations of posse comitatus and the concept of having a military unit that could be called upon in the event of a major crisis as happened in New Orleans should be put on the table and debated. Our society is becoming ever and ever more concentrated in major cities, very dependent on infrastructures and services such as water. It just doesn't take that much to render 100's of thousands of people helpless.

I don't think the government is very efficient either, but that doesn't mean they can't be. However I am another one who thinks they will never be as efficient as they could be. Too many are in government who wants to re-invent the wheel everytime something crops up, for one thing, and there are too many little empires for another. One of the things these locals need to look at is using their own resources, which includes the survivors of the catastrophe. When people come into these shelters, a group of people should be collecting certain data from the people, such as the occupations of these people. Some of that information can come in handy. I really don't believe that most of these people that go through an event like Katrina are helpless, not totally.

I realize you are not a defender of FEMA but a realist. It's my personal belief that if I need assistance, I'll get it from my friends and family if they are able, I don't even count on local assistance. It will be a small network of friends and family that will aid if needed. I also plan my life with emergencies in mind...this is a "live, drink, and be merry" society even those who have little don't appear to participate in any planning...e.g. plan for exiting home if it is on fire. Simple, simple stuff, FEMA, Government agencies, State, and even city are not on the list of dependable and able to provide levels. I don't live in a particularly wealthy area and we would be the last to receive any response, even from the electric and phone companies.

Well said, Outlooker, Btdt, and Moogie. We have often discussed personal responsibility vs. reliance on government support on this board. Overwhelmingly, we all agree that the federal government's role is to supplement local government's efforts in a disaster. And the local government's role is to supplement individual efforts. Aid from either federal or local government doesn't eliminate our personal responsibilities, it simply enhances our chances of successfully mitigating the effects of disaster. And in reality, American disaster victims have come out far better than their counterparts all over the world. This includes residents of New Orleans, who were victimized both by Katrina and some failures in government response. That being said, it isn't wrong for taxpayers to expect help from their government - both local and federal. And to that end, it is worthwhile for government to continually reassess their performance and make changes for improvement. At the club where I work we meet every year at the beginning of hurricane season, and go over our hurricane plans in detail. When a storm is heading our way we meet on a daily basis to continually update our plans and make sure all bases are covered. After the storm is over we meet again to evaluate our response, and make suggestions for next year's plans. Government agencies (on a much larger scale) could and should do the same.

That is pretty amazing, Abby, I wish we were united like that in Charlotte at the neighborhood and club level. The government turns over every four years, it's just like the large bank I work in...every four years, someone new waltzes in and reprioritizes the bowels of rice, who gets what, how much, and what matters and what doesn't matter. The taxpayers are bipartisen (we all are) and sometimes don't respect the lessons learned for each tenure. I wonder if a non partisen web site that was pro-active in lessons learned, planning, oopsies, screw up, etc. might help a general communication plan for us lowly individuals. Pets, etc. How hard would it be? How neat would it be...How life saving might it be. Knowledge shared is the lifeblood of survival...not whining and complaining (and I do my share on the island of misfit toys :) ) That would be so kool.

I think Moogie, btdt, yourself and some others here often provide good input, Abby. :) I don't believe the Feds are the bunch of misfits that many out there want to promote them as... but I do believe they are the last people I really want to bet my life on. lol No it isn't totally wrong to expect help from the government we pay taxes too, but we have to realize that this tax money is spent on all sorts of things.. both good and bad. The US Government spends alot of money on things which they shouldn't be spending money on and much of that is "our" fault. And the more we get dependent upon the government, the more they have to spend, which means the more we gripe because taxes go up.

I actually believe communications speed has outrun physcial capabilities. (unless you want to bomb someone)..information, hysterical reporting, fact and fiction have avenues that travel faster than the actual infrastructure needed to respond. It's interesting that people will believe unsubstantiated hysteria on the internet, than look for a way out for themselves. Let's be realistic, we cannot afford a government that is 364, 24x7 in a plane ready to respond. That would be saying I walk around my house with a fire extinguisher in my hand all the time in case of fire...and with my never ending luck, no fire, but a flood....so do fire extinguishers float :)