This is a strange time we live in; people are lost and stumbling around in the dark trying to find their way. Along comes a group (in a small country) which appeals to the masses by making over-inflated promises which draws people to their way of thinking. This isn't the first time this has happened; it kind of reminds me of Germany in the 1930's and the Nazi party. Now, you take a people which are basically un-educated and third world, and promise to make them into a "Great Nation" among the nations, (re: the nuclear reactor and nuclear technology) that they are somehow religiously superior to others and you get your cult following...add to this their rationale that the only reason why they have been subjugated to a lesser class of people is because they have been suppressed...Sound familiar?...didn't Hitler use this angle? Throw into the mix the religious overtones that exist in the M.E. and that which people hold deeply in their lives, and you have the makings of an evil that the world hasn't witnessed since before WW2, and has the a distinctive characteristic or attribute of a Pax-Romano (Roman Rule) like institute, but instead this will be Muslim Rule. The Romans like the Muslims were religious people. Pontifex Maximus was the High Priest. This position is filled with whom we call the Pope today. The Praetor was in charge of the judiciary of Rome. The office is like the Vice President position we have today. They make judgments upon the people and are the chief law officer. The Consuls (house and senate)or in Iran the (Mullahs) may overturn their verdicts if they felt the need. What I see coming is similar - Pax-Islam...everything is in place for this...Islam is sweeping Europe and growing worldwide...but there are obstacles. Democracy and the right to choose stands in the way; I think the Middle East is a powder keg that is hung over the fire. Many believe that U.S. is about to leave Iraq or at least they should...and that somehow peace will take hold in the region when they leave. This is far from the truth; in reality, when U.S. troops go home, there will be a power struggle in the Middle East like has never been seen and in particular Iraq. One possible scenario: Iran will sweep through Iraq with their army, with the help of the Shia in Iraq; the Saudis will resist this of course and march up to engage them in battle and another war will transpire in the Middle East again (many innocents will die)...to be con't

...con't The Saudis will have trouble because of inner turmoil (which exists now) and being betrayed by people in their own ranks who will side with the Iranian Mullahs and their brand of Islam. During this time, Iran and Saudi Arabia will sit across the table from each other to discuss terms for peace and will lie to each other, Iran will leave with a considerable amount of concessions made to them because of their superior army, but the war will continue on anyway (blood Feud) ...this WILL bring back U.S. forces back to the region and the rest of the world will be there too because of the oil. This power struggle between Iran (Shia) and Saudi Arabia (Sunni) is already going on in Iraq...pre-civil war phase...when the U.S. leaves, a full blown civil war will break out. Which brings me to my next question?should the U.S. stay the course in Iraq and stabilize their government and security forces enough to rebuff Iran/Saudi Arabia? Whether you believe the War in Iraq was justified or not is irrelevant now, if we do not finish the job, we will almost certainly have to return to do it?whether it is Republican or Democrat in the white House. I feel what is about to transpire in the Middle East in the coming months, is going to change the world we live in dramatically.

The obvious solution is to become less dependent upon foreign oil, meaning our leadership should make energy independence a strategic priority. If the same $123B was spent on new nuclear plants, gas efficient hybrids and renewable energy sources, think of the impact. We, the United States, nor any other nation will resolve the issues in the ME by force alone. So, in the long term energy independence is the only way to become secure.

Sorry, but even if we WERE "energy independent", oil prices are a GLOBAL commodity and a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia would shoot them through the roof!!! Oil companies wouldn't set their price for the oil they get HERE at a price LESS than it sells on the world-wide market. If they did they would be FLOODED with buy orders and would have nothing left for domestic customers! Sure, it would be cheaper to transport and refine here, but not all that savings are going to be passed on to the consumer...our oil would still be tied to the price the world is paying for a barrel of oil. The only difference would be the shareholders of American companies would see the wealth rather than the kings and princes of Arab countries.

As the greatest user of oil products in the world we should lead the effort to energy independence. The effort will bring new jobs to Americans and reduce pollution. Further, by becoming less dependent on oil for energy we use less making more available for developing countries we wish to keep "nuclear free", such as Iran. It's clear that a strategic energy development effort will reduce our dependence on a resource in a volatile region of the world reducing global risk of resource war. The technologies which bring energy independence should be shared globally to reduce resource dependence and thereby the disasterous effects of global warming.

Great post, dcman! What you have written here is hardly EVER discussed or mentioned when talk about retreating from Iraq is being debated. Sure, it's mentioned in passing, but the ramifications of a CLEAR vacuum in Iraq and the consequences of YEARS of fighting between Iranian-backed Shias and Saudi-backed Sunni's is unfathomable and totally unpredictable. It could ingulf the entire region and beyond in a bloody, protracted war (remember just Sadaam's war with Iran for a small taste!) that would immeasurably effect the ecomony of the world and us here in the US. You think paying $3.00 a gallon for gas is high now??? Try $5.00 to $10.00 a gallon!!! THAT'S EXACTLY why we can't leave right now! you think this little "war on terror" in Iraq is bloody...try a conflict that effects Iran and Saudi Arabia and all the countries in between. They say "WE" are the reason for the fighting over there...if we only left there would be peace...SORRY! WRONGO! If we left you would only see the beginning of a vast WIDER conflict. WE are the reason things don't boil over and go all to hell there! There would be absolutely NOTHING and NOBODY to stop Iran from marching into Baghdad, or setting up a proxy to fight the Sunni's all the way back to Jordan. And do you think Saudi Arabia or Jordan would stand one minute for such a scenario??? Basically your recipe for the Apocalypse is all there! And the Dems in congress are preheating the oven!!!

The Democratic majority has sent the president a message, no more funds unless he shows progress in Iraq, as expressed by the majority (70%)in the last congressional election. The congress represents the will of the people and has responded (too slowly in my opinion) to restrain the executive. Cut and run? Need I remind you of your position on the subject as of Jan this year, Madgjulia?

Democrats are sending a very articulate message to the terrorists that they (the terrorists) will win mid 2008. They are loving it.

You think paying $3.00 a gallon for gas is high now??? Try $5.00 to $10.00 a gallon!!! THAT'S EXACTLY why we can't leave right now! you think this little "war on terror" in Iraq is bloody...try a conflict that effects Iran and Saudi Arabia and all the countries in between. ========================= What do you think we will be paying for a gallon of gas when Iran(Shia) and Saudi Arabia(Sunni) target each others oilfields? You may have understated it nodog.

If the price of gas went to $10/ gal the cost of alternate energy resources would become competitive. Futher, it would force the 1st world to become independent of ME oil, a good thing. And best of all, there would be no reason to stay any longer in Iraq!

And best of all, there would be no reason to stay any longer in Iraq! =============== So what are you saying...leave Iraq and let that country slip into full blown civil war between Shia and Sunni, let them revert back to radical Islam, lose the democracy that American lives died for, just so we can be independent of M.E. oil?

Where is your response to this fre?

It could ingulf the entire region and beyond in a bloody, protracted war (remember just Sadaam's war with Iran for a small taste!) that would immeasurably effect the ecomony of the world and us here in the US. ======================================== I have left out the obvious in all of this this, but I will say it now...premature US withdrawal would be "dangerous" and a major source of concern for Israel...From such a withdrawal, anarchy would break out in Iraq and spread across the Shi'ite-Sunni world...Not many of us today will realize and dare to predict that the Shiite-Sunni Civil war in Iraq today bloody as it is, presages a much greater and bloodier regional Shiite-Sunni and Arab-Persian war in the Middle East. If war breaks out between Sunni/Shia nations, it will surley see Israel having to defend itself from them in the fray.

Letting your imagination run away with you again. There is no reason to believe Iran will attack Iraq. None. And no reason to believe any of Iraq's other neighbors will do anything other than to help stabilize Iraq, so it is not a threat to their own borders. One thing before we leave, Iraq needs to get itself in order politically, with equal representation for the Sunnis. That will cool the civil war.

Some background and what we have to look forward to when U.S. troops leave Iraq: "There is a sense that Shia are under occupation. And the situation is getting worse. There was a plan written by a Wahhabi cleric named Nasir al Omar who wrote about converting Shias to Sunni Islam or else face execution. Unfortunately it's at a social level now as well. The hatred of Shia is so intense that killing of Shia civilians is widely accepted. http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1512_0_25_0_C38 ...The Sunnis have no stake in working towards a Shiite dominated Iraq. They have everything to gain from destabilizing an Iraq that is moving in this direction. So the Sunnis are becoming the proverbial fly in the ointment for the Shiites and the Coalition forces and they have started a destabilizing insurgency in Iraq. We may note that while the Iraqi insurgency is fully dominated by Sunnis it is not limited to Iraqi Sunnis. Sunnis from all across the Islamic world have converged in to Iraq to destabilize Iraq. No wonder the Saudis and Iranians want the U.S. out of Iraq. ...the Shiite-Sunni Civil War in Iraq presage a much greater and bloodier regional Shiite-Sunni and Arab-Persian war in the Middle East Not many of us today will realize and dare to predict that the Shiite-Sunni Civil war in Iraq today bloody as it is, presages a much greater and bloodier regional Shiite-Sunni and Arab-Persian war in the Middle East. This war that will unfold over the next twelve months will be by far the most bloodiest landmark in the history of War. This will be a war that will tear the Islamic world into two irreconcilable halves. A war that will not be a formal or declared one like a conventional war, but will be marked by increasingly bold and destructive terrorists attacks on Shiite targets, first in Iraq and later across the Islamic world. http://www.waronjihad.org/shiites191005.html Before it is over the entire M.E. will be at war, and we will have to return to finish the job we started, and much greater cost, both of million of lives and trillions of dollars. We need to finish what we have started and help Iraq to flourish as a model democracy...of course this is going to take time. Saudi Arabia IS financing the Sunni Insurgency to overthrow the Shia, and Iran IS financing Shia independence in Iraq with hopes of uniting countries to become the biggest financial/military superpower in the M.E. and the Saudis/Sunnis just won't let this happen.

For the above mentined reasons is why we MUST stay the course in Iraq and bring fruition to the world's newest democracy. We leave now, the fragile democracy in Iraq will fall...and war between Shia and Sunni nations will follow. The cost of failure in Iraq will be unfathomable. What the Iraqis need from us in a commitment to success, a commitment to stay...right now they are viewing us as a paper tiger with no teeth...no resolve to stay the course and win...because we are divided at home. The Democrats should be ashamed of themselves. They (Shia/Sunni)all have stakes in what happens in Iraq and will fight to protect their intrests.

Further to the link provided above: How the Shiite-Sunni war will shape up in the next few months About the withdraw of U.S. forces from the region...An interesting outcome of this could be that the coalition forces would gradually withdraw to heavily fortified zones inside Iraq and leave the day-to-day fighting to the Shiite Army and Police. While the Americans dream is a stable and democratic Iraq, the Sunnis have no interest in such a Shiite dominated Iraq, while most Shiites would also not want democracy per se, they would prefer a Shiite theocracy - a prospect which is the worst anathema for the Sunnis. We may see interesting permutations in the next few days, where the Sunni insurgents gradually leave the coalition forces alone, unless they enter the war on the side of the Shiite dominated Iraqi army against the Sunni insurgents. But if the Americans keep to themselves inside their fortified zones, they would be a target of secondary preference to the Sunni insurgents. The first object of their rage is going to be the Iraqi army and the lay Shiites. So we would see schools, hospitals, mosque gatherings on Fridays being targeted in Shiite areas. How the Shiite army and police respond to this and what would be the policy of the [resent and future Shiite dominated government remains an interesting question. The Shiites have displayed remarkable restraint so far, but the only reason for this is that they know that Iraq is their inheritance by sheer force of numbers through which they will ride over the Sunnis. They want to strengthen their grasp over Iraq, till the time that they can act independently of the Coalition forces. Once they cross that critical mass, the Shiites will shed their restraint and go on a merciless offensive against the Sunnis. They have shown evidence of this when the former Prime Minister Ilyad Allawi personally shot some tens of Sunni insurgents lodged in Iraqi prisons. And Sunni clerics have had their bodies drilled into with electric drilling machines by Shiite policemen. These are tips of the iceberg of Shiite hatred for the Sunnis. ...anyone still think we should pack our bags and go home...do we really want this kind of bloodshed on our hands? We need to stay the course in Iraq, and finish the job, and see the Iraqi democracy to fruition.

one more thing: Historic significance of the American liberation of Iraq for the Shiites When the coalition forces toppled Saddam's regime they did not bring an end only to the Baathist dictatorship of three decades, but to Sunni domination of 1400 years. ...I guess not much thought was given about this before we toppled Saddam. Whether we believe the War in Iraq was justified or not is irrelevant now, if we do not finish the job, we will almost certainly have to return to do it?whether it is Republican or Democrat in the White House. The coming war will see all nations invloved, not just M.E. nations...anyone who has a stake and interest...because of the M.E. oil...China/Russia and the SCO...the U.S. and allied nations will be there defending their intrests.