GAVIN and STAR, and DAVELLIN including the little baby that was born on July 30, 2004 ???? SHOULD THESE KIDS ALLOW TO REMAIN WITH MOTHER???? HAS SHE NOT DONE ENOUGH EMOTIONAL , INTELLECTUAL AND PHYSICAL DAMAGE TO HER CHILDREN??????

Unfortunately, the health and welfare of children is not Ms. Allred true motive in speaking out. It has been proven that the Arvizio children are being raised by an unstable woman who encourages lying and stealing (all in evidence in the court) yet Ms. Allred does not see these children as endangered. TV time is what Ms. Allred is looking for and talking bad about MJ affords her that opportunity.

This perfectly examplifies the TRUE CHARACTER OF GLORIA ALLRED, MONEY GRUBBING PUBLICITY HOUND with no true cause for child moral's and ethics

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15632404&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=jackson-cleared--battle-to-keep-children-looms-name_page.html

The link you provided calg3 shows exactly what sort of woman this GLORIA ALLRED is! She's so FULL of hatred towards Michael Jackson only and not the least concerned about the children who have already been proven to have been brought up by an unfit parent! Her first priority should be to REMOVE the accuser and his siblings from their home, not Michael Jackson's children from his home! Michael Jackson was found "NOT GUILTY"! I would say she is going to have one hell of a fight on her hands if she tries to remove his children! The childrens mother, for petes sake has said he is a wonderful father, and a witness said the children were well behaved, well cared for children, so why the hell would anyone want to remove his children from his care! SPITEFULNESS that's what I'd call it!!!!!!

"The childrens mother, for petes sake has said he is a wonderful father, and a witness said the children were well behaved, well cared for children..." It's amazing how when you give somebody millions, you can get them to say anything you want. Apparently, she is not worthy of ever seeing her own children. Yet, she is also a legitimate character witness of who is fit? Aside from the old issues (baby dangling, drug/alcohol abuse) there are new issues brought up in the trial MJ fans have been screaming for months about how Gavin and Star were running around, on their own, all over Neverland with booze, porn, and even a knife. Is that safe? Drunk kids drive around in motorized vehicles, almost hitting other kids. Kids dropped object from atop rides. That sounds like a dangerous place. If it happened a couple times, and MJ stopped it, you could say it wasn't MJ's fault. But, it happened many times. MJ allowed it, even if by omission. He is the msater of Neverland. He controls it. It's not a safe place for kids. I don't know what should happen with MJ's kids. But, given new information from the trial, about Neverland, it seems appropriate for a review to be done. In a criminal trial MJ does not have explain himself; that's his right. But, when it comes to child welfare, he can, and should, be compelled to explain how he ensures for the safety his children.

MJ fans have been screaming for months about how Gavin and Star were running around, on their own, all over Neverland with booze, porn, and even a knife. Is that safe? Drunk kids drive around in motorized vehicles, almost hitting other kids. Kids dropped object from atop rides. That sounds like a dangerous place. **************************************************** It was not clear during the trial, just who was in charge of the children, while they were at neverland. When the children were there with out parents, who actually stated they were in charge of the children? I for one, would NEVER let my children stay, unless I knew the exact supervision and I would certainly spend some time there, so I could witness things first hand. And of coarse..I would check in with my children every other hour, to make sure everything was OK. This momma knew her kids were somewhat of a "handfull" to put it nicely. For her to leave her children so easily in someone elses hands, is simply wrong!!!

Aside from the old issues (baby dangling, drug/alcohol abuse) there are new issues brought up in the trial MJ fans have been screaming for months about how Gavin and Star were running around, on their own, all over Neverland with booze, porn, and even a knife. Is that safe? Drunk kids drive around in motorized vehicles, almost hitting other kids. Kids dropped object from atop rides. That sounds like a dangerous place. If it happened a couple times, and MJ stopped it, you could say it wasn't MJ's fault. But, it happened many times. MJ allowed it, even if by omission. He is the msater of Neverland. He controls it. It's not a safe place for kids. **************************************************** Calg3, if you care to go back through the archives you'll find a number of your points have already been discussed on this board! The baby dangling incident, I'm afraid there are more parents than not who have at some stage endangered their childs life, UNINTENTIONALLY! A few were honest enough to post and tell us horror stories that involved them or someone close to them, involving endangering a child/ren life! What did you think of Steve Irwin (Crocodile Hunter) who took his baby into the "CROCODILE PEN"?? That is far more dangerous than dangling a baby over a balcony and he didn't even cover the babies head, one example how a parent can act irresponsible, but at the save time, it does not make them an UNFIT parent! Why do you insist everyone who says Michael Jackson is not guilty, is a FAN? A number of posters have already said they are not FANS, but were not convinced by the evidence against him! Calg3, it doesn't only happen at Neverland! It happens at other theme parks, schools, homes, and it happens in schools, and they all have rules! So you're suggesting all those places are dangerous? Thousands of children have visited Neverland, and not all of them have behaved like Gavin and Star! As always, there will be a few bad-seeds who spoil the fun for everyone! I for one, do not blame Michael Jackson for these boys behaviour or any other child who visits Neverland! Children take drugs to school, porno and knives as well, is that the Principal's fault? NO I DON'T THINK SO........ You say you don't know what should happen with MJ's kids! Well I do know! They should remain in Michael's custody and Gloria Allred should be more concerned for Gavin and his siblings because it has been proven, they have an UNFIT mother!

zoollee => "if you care to go back through the archives you'll find a number of your points have already been discussed on this board! " Yes, yes. Everything I said, everything you said, everything said about MJ, has been discussed in the past, and will be in the future. We had a brief "new" discussion on June 13, and then we returned repeating history. Live with it. zoollee => "Why do you insist everyone who says Michael Jackson is not guilty, is a FAN? " I have tried (imperfectly) to make a distinction. One thing you might have been refering to was when I said "MJ fans have been screaming...". The people who aren't MJ fans, but argued strongly for his acquittal, were *not* screaming about anything. I concede, there have been rational explanations of why MJ should have been acquitted, usually given by non-fans. These arguements have had an effect on me. I respect the juries verdict, and might have made the same one! That doesn't mean I respect obsessed MJ fans. I think, during the trial, most people who come to these boards, never got to read the rational arguements made for MJ's acquittal. Before they do, they see insane ramblings from MJ-obsessed fans, who frequently make violent threats, and obscene comments (that are often deleted by moderators). If saner fans of MJ don't like the reputation they're getting as being unstable, then they should distance themselves from the more disturbing fans. I see little, but not much of this happening. Instead I see you, zoollee, cheering on a fellow poster, toonu2, who has openly advocated violence. Shameful.

I think, during the trial, most people who come to these boards, never got to read the rational arguements made for MJ's acquittal. Before they do, they see insane ramblings from MJ-obsessed fans, who frequently make violent threats, and obscene comments (that are often deleted by moderators). If saner fans of MJ don't like the reputation they're getting as being unstable, then they should distance themselves from the more disturbing fans. I see little, but not much of this happening. Instead I see you, zoollee, cheering on a fellow poster, toonu2, who has openly advocated violence. Shameful. ************************************ Calg3, there have been just as many INSANE ramblings from MJ Bashers, too, but I see you're another one, who doesn't have a problem with that! Posts have been deleted on this board for no reason at all! They just disappear, a few will agree with me on that one! LMAO@cheering toon on! You must be talking about the Kicking posts, (LMAO Toon, getit, kicking posts)! Toon and I are from the same country, and in a few of our posts we discuss RUGBY games, yes RUGBY games, so that's just a little joke between him and I, nothing for you to get your knickers in a twist over! But..... again, you choose to see what you want to see, because I did post straight after and a serious post, which obviously you didn't see, or just chose not to comment on that particular post and instead chose to attack me! Were you by any chance, may I ask, offended by the reply I did concerning "Gloria Allred"?? If so I do apologise! I was simply stating how I see things, regarding MJ and his responsibilty towards the children who visit Neverland!

Zoolle wrote: Calg3, there have been just as many INSANE ramblings from MJ Bashers, too, but I see you're another one, who doesn't have a problem with that! Posts have been deleted on this board for no reason at all! They just disappear, a few will agree with me on that one! LMAO@cheering toon on! You must be talking about the Kicking posts, (LMAO Toon, getit, kicking posts)! Toon and I are from the same country, and in a few of our posts we discuss RUGBY games, yes RUGBY games, so that's just a little joke between him and I, nothing for you to get your knickers in a twist over! But..... again, you choose to see what you want to see, because I did post straight after and a serious post, which obviously you didn't see, or just chose not to comment on that particular post and instead chose to attack me! Were you by any chance, may I ask, offended by the reply I did concerning "Gloria Allred"?? If so I do apologise! I was simply stating how I see things, regarding MJ and his responsibilty towards the children who visit Neverland! ---------------------------------------------------------- Way to go Zoolle, Stick up for us boys, remember, to play rugby you need leahter balls! Yeah stick up for the boys. Hit these duckers with a head high, get it into their brains. Tell these wimps what its like to be raked with the spigs of BUCK! Show them what a real ruck is, root out the sheepish ones, poke out the shifty eyes, pumble those softy ears and turn them to collyflower, headbut them and push em off the park! Tell them that the boys took the bullets and the bombs to defend their rights to freedom and fairness of justice. Tell them it was the boys who violently battled back the demons and control freaks who wanted to destroy our freedoms and steal away our system of fair justice. Remind them about the boys who "Marched at dawn, in silence, and fell before sunrise" Yes that was violent stuff. We lost our dads and uncles, but they got us here so we put flowers on their graves and never think to condem the innocent. But hell, we will fight back against injustice and the feable minded marching back to hell. Give them a drop kick between the empty space.

How can we believe what Debbie Rowe says when she accepted millions of dollars from Michael Jackson for her own children? No different than any other witness who received money for their story or statement!

Remember all of you MJ supporters...it's all about credibility!!!!! Your own words!!!!!

Remember all of you MJ supporters...it's all about credibility!!!!! Your own words!!!!! ******************************************************** Debbie Rowe is not the only one on the record saying that Michael Jackson is a good father....Lets see, theres Bashir, Mesereau, his brothers and sisters and his parents. And if you think any of these people would stand by, if they thought harm would come to these children, then you are just SICK! I am sure there are many more that could vouch for him, I only stated the ones I actually heard on TV, making the comment on what a GREAT father he is.

....Lets see, theres Bashir, Mesereau, his brothers and sisters and his parents. **************************** Let's see here.... Bashir...His credibility was smeared by MJ supporters on this board because he said one thing and did another regarding the documentary. Mesereau...Michael is his client and he has only known Michael during this trial as he stated on Larry King. He met him upon agreeing to defend him. Brothers, sisters, and parents...that speaks for itself. Family members!!!! lmao!!!!

So, maerain, Are you stating that these people would over look any harm to MJ's children....turn the other way, like the prosecutions witnesses did, when they saw children violently getting molested? Don't forget the children have Nannys as well.

So, maerain, Are you stating that these people would over look any harm to MJ's children....turn the other way, like the prosecutions witnesses did, when they saw children violently getting molested? Don't forget the children have Nannys as well. **************** What I am saying is that these people have no way of knowing what is going on between Michael and his children behind his closed bedroom door. For Mesereau to say he is a great parent is meaningless since he hasn't known him for long and yes the children's nannies are paid employees of Michael. As the MJ supporters have proclaimed since day one....money influences people greatly!!!!!!

What I am saying is that these people have no way of knowing what is going on between Michael and his children behind his closed bedroom door. So what are u saying here, Gloria is the one that know better than all these peps???

No that is not what I am saying. I don't believe she would be the one doing an investigation would she? She is simply an attorney. She is not a social worker. I am saying that just because michael's family, lawyer, and Debbie Rowe say that he is an excellent father doesn't mean I would believe them without question. These are the same people who don't believe Michael is capable of molesting the children who have accused him.

What I am saying is that these people have no way of knowing what is going on between Michael and his children behind his closed bedroom door -------------------------------------------------------- And neither do you!